condemn the threat of suicide attacks as well, but let us start from where it all started
thanks and here is my response.
Now you please tell me wht is by force, every law is an implementation of force, people even want to go to drink and drive but by law it is wrong and if anyone do this will be sent to jail, so this is also by force, in many countries prostitution is a profession and in many there is a punishment, so law is basically a geographical thing and every country and civilization has a right to implement a law which is according to there religion and people (Ofcourse law should be inforced by Govt). So now if Govt of Pakistan introduces a law according to which if muslim wont pray five time will be fined, nudity will be charged and prostitution will be stoned to death, then it wont be called as "islam by force", it will be called as implementation of Law.
and that is what i and we should want.
The point is that I or any other is ONLY answerable to the state or not. Who are these “students” who kidnap me by arguing that I am doing a NON-ISLAMIC practice?
Dear Noman!
Thanks for your reply. I will like to continue the
same practice.
> now u tell me where in Pkistan non-muslims are not
> protected, which religion ,sect or gender is under
> fire, we are not restricting any religion/gender or
> sect unless it crosse the limits of freedom our
> constitution and islamic values hs given to him.
> like in Pakistan there are churches , mandir etc,
> but they are not allowed to preach their religion
> (although they are doing), they are allowed drink or
> import liquor but not allowed to drink or sell in
> public. (although t they are doing.) we never force
> any non-muslim to wear islmaic dress e lways ask
> them dont display nudity atleast.
> so every one is allowed to live freely in Pakistan
> but in certain limits, like in west they are banning
> hijab or scraff or religious symbols they have their
> own views for every thing and they are doing , what
> they want to do.
> you can walk naked n the road as it is is freedm
> of living but u cant wear hijab dont u think these
> are dual standards , but we are not discussing them.
Yaar, the point is not that rights of Muslims or non-Muslims are guaranteed or not. The point is that I or any other is ONLY answerable to the state or not. Who are these “students” who kidnap me by arguing that I am doing a NON-ISLAMIC practice? This is the responsibility on the state and if state fails to do that, you should use proper channels to stop this. There are other ways of stopping it. As I told you one method, other can be providing financial support that makes them financially independent. But these methods require creditability and effort. I am sorry to say that ALL (so-called) ISLAMIC PARTIES failed to have
this. On the high level, parliament should be use to implement ISLAMIC LAWS but again for this
creditability is required.
> so we need honesty and good moral values not a
> westren culture then i think u will be agree with me
> that if we ca be able to establish a good islamic
> state then every one will going to get every thing
> in very good way and we can be an example to the wet
> as fcourse we have the best religion the only
> problem is with the flag leaders of Pakistan.
>
That’s why I am against these “students” because their direction is not appropriate because the struggle like this will eventually end adding a bad name to Islam. This is not more than one second film in history.
> Dear Farhan, yes this is the same country Norway,
> in which salman rashdee is in asylam, this is the
> same country which is sex free nd i think in this
> free cunry where every one can live with its own
> except muslims as i think hijab is also banned
> there, but people can see islam there, i know by
> seeing Islam you mean the moral and social values
> there, you and the other person can be right, bcoz
> may be there are no lies, no crimes in norway, but
> do we need honesty first and Islam next, cant we put
> Islam first so every thing will be fix
> automatically?
> what is the crime rate in Saudia??
> what is the crime rate in UAE??
>
> once on BBC they iterviewed a person from Spain
> and asked him what is your religion he said Islam,
> they asked you dont look like muslim from any point,
> so hw can you called yurself muslim, he id my father
> was muslim so do i. do we need this kind of Islam,
> where liquor in one hand, half naked Girl in other
> and locket of Allah in neck and the religion is
> Islam
>
> but in short i have only this point, we need Islam
> in Pakista, and i think every muslim is and will be
> agree with me that if we can implement islam in its
> original and compelte shape in Pakistan then all
> the problems will be finished.
Yaar, the problem is not about the crime rate, problem is about the implementation. You know better than me what is the standard for punishment in these two countries The same problem is in Pakistan. As far as the interview of the person at BBC is concerned, tell me will he come to Islam or move away from it. The times I repeat the word image is due to this reason.
The conclusion I made from your mail is that Islam is the ONLY SOLUTION to all the problems of Pakistan. Well, I 100% agree with it but the problem is the way of implementation. I will never encourage any attempt made onm the bases of force. These will not attract anyone including muslim or non-muslim towards Islam.
These acts will cause a bad image of Islam. Islam is a religion is of tolerance. It is a eaceful religion which always encourage people to solve their problems peacefully.
Regards
Farhan
Reply:
where in Pakistan non-Muslims
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (6/Apr/2007)
now u tell me where in Pakistan non-Muslims are not protected, which religion ,sect or gender is under fire, we are not restricting any religion/gender or sect
AOA
Dear Farhan
I will try to explain my response to your very intellectual reply point by point.
>Well. I agree with you partially at this point.
>Pakistan is not a secular state but it provided
>guaranteed rights for every human beings without
>considering the gender, religion, cast, social states
>or any other thing. Kindly, don't restrict it to
>Muslims. Correct me if I am wrong in my interpretation
>that your view is that Pakistan is created for Muslims
>ONLY. Well my friend, I don't think so, Pakistan is
>created with the assurance that rights of each and
>every human being will be protected.
now u tell me where in Pakistan non-Muslims are not protected, which religion ,sect or gender is under fire, we are not restricting any religion/gender or sect unless it cross the limits of freedom our constitution and Islamic values has given to him. like in Pakistan there are churches , mandir etc, but they are not allowed to preach their religion (although they are doing), they are allowed drink or import liquor but not allowed to drink or sell in public. (although they are doing.) we never force any non-muslim to wear islmaic dress we always ask them dont display nudity atleast.
so every one is allowed to live freely in Pakistan but in certain limits, like in west they are banning hijab or scraff or religious symbols they have their own views for every thing and they are doing , what they want to do.
you can walk naked n the road as it is is freedm of living but u cant wear hijab dont u think these are dual standards , but we are not discussing them.
Forgive me for my perception that if muslim usually have to provide example for anything good, they will move to the early days of Islam and if they have to provide example for something bad, they will move to the western countries. As far as the issue of free sex
is concerned, I am attaching you the column of "Oria Maqbool Jan" published in the newspaper EXPRESS on April 5th, 2007 (
http://express. com.pk/epaper/ Index.aspx? Issue=NP_ LHE&Page= FRONT_PAGE& Date=20070405& Pageno=1).
The point is that there are people in the west who consider free sex as evil and continue their struggle to stop it through appropriate means not starting kidnapping people on the charges of sex. The point is that if you want to stop anything in Pakistan (like
films or wearing a proper dress) use appropriate channel. No way, I will support some on who attack on women with halfselves shirts with dagger which happened in Karachi and claim that Islam allowed or ordered this. Look at the countries one can think as sex free. These are the countries which claimed that no person in there country speaks a lie and my friend, this should be our claim. Don’t ignore the other aspects of “sex free” countries regarding crime and honesty.
so we need honesty and good moral values not a westren culture then i think u will be agree with me that if we ca be able to establish a good islamic state then every one will going to get every thing in very good way and we can be an example to the wet as fcourse we have the best religion the only problem is with the flag leaders of Pakistan.
Dear Noman, I will like to quote here a statement from a person who visited Norway. The exact words are “ I stayed for three months. I saw Islam and failed to see
any Muslim. I came back to Pakistan. I saw Muslims and fail to see Islam”. Dear friend, religion grows on the bases of moral values. The point is that kidnapping people on the charges of prostitution and offering them options like holding a JURY under Islamic Laws
(Sihara) is what makes my sad. These are things that are adding nothing to Islam rather it is damaging the image of Islam which in turn make people to hate it.
Dear Farhan, yes this is the same country Norway, in which salman rashdee is in asylam, this is the same country which is sex free nd i think in this free cunry where every one can live with its own except muslims as i think hijab is also banned there, but people can see islam there, i know by seeing Islam you mean the moral and social values there, you and the other person can be right, bcoz may be there are no lies, no crimes in norway, but do we need honesty first and Islam next, cant we put Islam first so every thing will be fix automatically?
what is the crime rate in Saudia??
what is the crime rate in UAE??
once on BBC they iterviewed a person from Spain and asked him what is your religion he said Islam, they asked you dont look like muslim from any point, so hw can you called yurself muslim, he id my father was muslim so do i. do we need this kind of Islam, where liquor in one hand, half naked Girl in other and locket of Allah in neck and the religion is Islam
but in short i have only this point, we need Islam in Pakista, and i think every muslim is and will be agree with me that if we can implement islam in its original and compelte shape in Pakistan then all the problems will be finished.
regards
Allah hafiz
noman
Reply:
Farhan: Pakistan is not a sech
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (6/Apr/2007)
Pakistan is not a secholar state but it provided guaranteed rights for every human beings without considering the gender, religion, cast, social states or any other thing
Dear Noman!
I will try to explain my views point by point
>Pakistan is not a secholar state, and in this
> country every one can live with his/her views but
> behind clossed doors, on the roads only Islamic way
> of living or the way of living which is not in clash
> with Islamic living should be allowed (i wish).
Well. I agree with you partially at this point.
Pakistan is not a secholar state but it provided guaranteed rights for every human beings without considering the gender, religion, cast, social states or any other thing. Kindly, don't restrict it to muslims. Correct me if I am wrong in my interpretation that your view is that Pakistan is created for muslims ONLY. Well my friend, I don't think so, Pakistan is created with the assurance that rights of each and every human being will be protected.
>please identify those "sophisticated nations", i
> think you are pointing out the sex free countries.
Forgive me for my perception that if muslim usually
have to provide example for anything good, they will move to the early days of Islam and if they have to provide example for something bad, they will move to the western countries. As far as the issue of free sex is concerned, I am attaching you the column of "Oria Maqbool Jan" published in the newspaper EXPRESS on April 5th, 2007 (
http://express. com.pk/epaper/ Index.aspx? Issue=NP_ LHE&Page= FRONT_PAGE& Date=20070405& Pageno=1).
The point is that there are people in the west who
consider free sex as evil and continue their struggle to stop it through appropriate means not starting kidnapping people on the charges of sex. The point is that if you want to stop anything in Pakistan (like films or wearing a proper dress) use appropriate channel. No way, I will support some on who attack on women with halfselves shirts with dagger which happened in Karachi and claim that Islam allowed or ordered this. Look at the countries one can think as sex free. These are the countries which claimed that no person in there country speaks a lie and my friend, this should be our claim. Don’t ignore the other aspects of “sex free” countries regarding crime and honesty.
> i think according to your point of view the
> images of Holy Prophet (PBUH) are freedom of
> expression ??
> Nude or half nude women is freedom of living?
> Makkah and madina should not be for muslims only?
> gay and lesbians is personal matters?
I don’t think that I wrote or said anything like that and I don’t feel any need to provide any proof that I am against all this. Even then if you continue to perceive like that, feel free to continue doing it.
> my brother social system is based on moral values, > and we as a muslims have our own moral values and no > society in islamic state can be built without > islamic values.
> Pakistan is for muslims or for those who can live
> with muslim ideolgy, we cant permit people drinking
> liquor on reoads coz it is their freedom.
Dear Noman, I will like to quote here a statement from a person who visited Norway. The exact words are “ I stayed for three months. I saw Islam and failed to see any Muslim. I came back to Pakistan. I saw Muslims and fail to see Islam”. Dear friend, religion grows on the bases of moral values. The point is that kidnapping people on the charges of prostitution and offering them options like holding a JURY under Islamic Laws (Sihara) is what makes my sad. These are things that are adding nothing to Islam rather it is damaging the image of Islam which in turn make people to hate it.
Hopefully, you get my point.
Regards
Farhan
Reply:
Zubair: So far Govt has not ta
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
Next you will hear them setting up their own courts & using the armed "female"police
Dear friends
So far Govt has not taken any action & that has encouraged these ppl. Next you will hear them setting up their own courts & using the armed "female"police they will start abducting ppl for Islamic trials. They know it is unlawful & will lead to anarchy. But that is exactly the agenda----destroy Pakistan, the only Islamic country that has some power. You gentlemen must have noted that our oppositin is quiet on the whole affair. They know Govt will have to act at some point. Thay are waiting for that moment & then they will cry wolf. So gentlement this is not the time to argue about Islam or shariah. This is the time to save whatever is left of Pakistan. I don't know about others, but this is the only home for me & I would not like my children to face "taliban" with sticks & Klashnikoffs. What worries me is that the Govt has consistantly shown weakness by wooing these ppl & time is fast running out. It is getting close to being too late too little. You are all educated lot. Please play a positive roll even if you are living abroad. Allah save Pakistan from anarchy and Talibanisation.
Regards----- -----Zubair
Reply:
Anwar: Tit for tatscript src=
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
see the occupation of F 9 Park by Musharraf's son in the form of MacDonald's restaurant
With Allah's Name, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate
Assalamo Alaikum.
Its tit for tat. The brave girls are protesting against demolition of demolition of a Masjid. As soon as Govt. (So called) rebuilds the Masjid, girls will stop their protest. If you want to see illegal occupation of land, then see the occupation of F 9 Park by Musharraf's son in the form of MacDonald's restaurant at the expense of public park. Musharraf has captured the country and Pakistan army and using these for destruction of the moral and ethical foundations of the state.
anwar haque haque8888@gmail.com
Reply:
Pakistan is not a secular stat
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
Pakistan is not a secular state, and in this country every one can live with his/her views but behind closed doors, on the roads only Islamic way
AOA
Dear Farhan Faiz
Pakistan is not a secular state, and in this country every one can live with his/her views but behind closed doors, on the roads only Islamic way of living or the way of living which is not in clash with Islamic living should be allowed (i wish).
please identify those "sophisticated nations", i think you are pointing out the sex free countries.
i think according to your point of view the images of Holy Prophet (PBUH) are freedom of expression ??
Nude or half nude women is freedom of living?
Makkah and Medina should not be for Muslims only?
gay and lesbians is personal matters?
my brother social system is based on moral values, and we as a Muslims have our own moral values and no society in Islamic state can be built without Islamic values.
Pakistan is for Muslims or for those who can live with muslim ideology, we cant permit people drinking liquor on roads coz it is their freedom.
regards
Allah Hafiz
noman
Reply:
Sajid: Considering the actions
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
Considering the actions taken by our "Roshan Khayal" government that is not only being criticized from internal circles but even from non-muslims from outside, it is very logical to support
Dear Reader
Considering the actions taken by our "Roshan Khayal" government that is not only being criticized from internal circles but even from non-muslims from outside, it is very logical to support these sisters. Mr. Musharraf and his team want to see the nation naked before others. If they are so found of these things, why not they start from there own house. They should bring their own sisters, mothers and daughters on the road in the dress they like others. Islam and Islamic education is a big headache for Musharraf and his team. They are trying their utmost to uproot it from Pakistan. Jame Hafsa has challeged the write of the Government but why, did anyone considers this.
Dear fellows, wake up and considers the consequences of the actions taken by musharraf to eradicate Islam from Pakistan. Remember, we have no survival in world (i do not mean spiritually but economically and socially) except Islam.
Sajid
Reply:
Farhan: Continuing the Zubair'
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
I don't think anyone will favor the acts like attacking the women who are wearing half salves shirts as this happened in
Dear All!
Continuing the Zubair's view, I don't think anyone
will favor the acts like attacking the women who are wearing half salves shirts as this happened in
Karachi.
Look at the situation in TRIBAL AREA of Pakistan. Both parties are killing in the name of ALLAH. Both parties killed persons are SHAHEED. Both parties are RIGHT.
What I want to point out that I have no problem with their views. If someone thinks he/she is RIGHT. This is his/her basic right. What I don't agree with is that why he/she imposed or implement his/her version of truth. One can have arguments, can provide logical reason but to expect someone else to follow my version of truth and making sure through force is unacceptable.
Kindly look at the sophicated nations of the world and see what made them ethically almost prefect. My view is tolerance. Giving others right to live according to their views.
Regards
Farhan
Reply:
Zubair: Sir, I don't know what
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
I hope you know that our "muslim brother" country in the west and our enemy in the East are trying very hard to destablise Pakistan
Sir, I don't know what really is negative---- endorsing the illegal acts of these "great women", OR warning of their possible agenda. I hope you know that our "muslim brother" country in the west and our enemy in the East are trying very hard to destablise Pakistan. What message are these women giving to the world," Pakistan is country where armed gangs of women are raising the banner of Islam in the name of rerligion. These "women"are trying very hard to endorse the western propaganda that Islam is another name for terrorism and intolerance. Muslims are hard at work trying to tell the world that Islam is religion of peace. The western propaganda has another plus point in their favour----if these Muslims can't tolerate their own ppl, how can they be expected to live with non muslims. Friend, I know we have had some great women in Islam but they were fighting enemies of the state and not destablising muslim ummah. I hope the unilateral actions of these "women" don't ever effect you or your family member. They are being manipulated and used by the enemies of Pakistan; the same ppl who had a female minister shot in the name of Islam. Imagine when in evey Muhallh there are gangs of black clad women "arresting" anyone they like and punishing him or her---this is a beautiful recipe for destroying a country. Next you will see them hanging ppl in public and chopping hands in the name of Islam. PLEASE THINK WITH COOL MIND;DO NOT CREATE A STATE IN THE STATE; LIKE AFGHANISTAN.
Regards----- --------- -Zubair
"Zubair"
Reply:
All those who are against this
Replied by(
Noman)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
All those who are against this occupation of school by those students tell me one thing, what were there actions against the demolition of mosques.
AOA
All those who are against this occupation of school by those students tell me one thing, what were there actions against the demolition of mosques.
due to these girls only the 9 other mosques in Islamabad are surviving today.
u ppl cant do anything ourself and thats why cant see other doing as well.
if they have taken law it their hand then it is bcoz they were forced into this.
govt was abt to demolish there mosque and mudrassa after demolishing the 6 other mosques.
do u knew that this mudrassa is the biggest mudrassa for women in the world??
we should stand by these students to stop the demolishing of mosques at least.
regards
Allah Hafiz
noman
Reply:
Amir: Why we always think nega
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
Why we always think negative or find any point by which we can blame others
Why we always think negative or find any point by which we can blame others, did we not heart their voices on TV either they are men or women?why we forget that there were many great women wo fought, Even if there are few men, they ought to do it. They are billions times better than many diplomatic pakis, they atleast know what is right and what is wrong
"amir mughal"
Reply:
Zubair: I agree with Farhansc
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
We are heading for anarchy in the country. All those who endorse the actions of "students" should know that these covered women may not even be muslim
I agree with Farhan. We are heading for anarchy in the country. All those who endorse the actions of "students" should know that these covered women may not even be muslim, Pakistani of even women under those black robes. So brace up for more chaos in the name of Islam.-----Zubair
"Zubair"
Reply:
Zubair: You sure are bitter ag
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
You sure are bitter against Pakistan & Army. Is it because of your ove for Islam or hatred for Pakistan
Friend
You sure are bitter against Pakistan & Army. Is it because of your ove for Islam or hatred for Pakistan---- --------- --------- ---all I can say is keep up the "good work".
"Zubair"
Reply:
amir: Oh great newsscript src
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
It means after operation of Mudrass-e-hafsa our govt will again get bucks from forign.
Oh great news…
It means after operation of Mudrass-e-hafsa our govt will again get bucks from forign.
Wish u a great success and best of luck meri pak police and pak army k jawano.
Yes pak army and pak police must destroy this mosque and as numerous destroyed in Afghanistan and in Iraq by carpeted bombardment.
You know our army is the best army and our people are great… even they will lost in 1948, 1965, 1971, in cargil, seachin but they proudly say this bloody army has full right to destroy the mosques…
This bloody army is like a dog who was kept to guard the home and keep out side but instead they always comes inside the home and not care who is looting outside,,, yes one will bow from out side that dog becomes a little mice….
Welldoing pak army… they don’t have courage to atleast expend or get 1 feet territory but give their family women for promotion with honor, if you not believe ask any responsible person from pak army and pak airforce what is their criteria of promotion.
Anyway that’s was another subject, but let them destroy our mosques and let them destroy the people of whom in their triabal areas whom they named ‘taleban or alqaida’ yes they must be destroyed because their Qaida is Quran.
No problem after destroying at the end of the day they will get alteast few bugs from their friends…
Well Done pak Army we are all proud of u…
Yes also kill the women who stop people to sell bad movies, and who stop fahashi… these jahil women don't know that pakistan is made to make progress and prosperity,, , to become a progressive nation. by sticking with islam we can't live. Tell them the real islam which these women are practicing is the ZANJEER OF OUR LIBERAL LEADERS, who saved pakistan ,,,
Tell such jahil women in black burkas that Pakistan is First,,,,
Tell them such wome that once we will die,,, our first question in the graveyard will be for Pakistan,,,,
Tell these jahil wome that Allah will say why did you stopped such liberal people who honoray do what you even cannot think....
Please tell them that we are moderate people, we have new Modern Islam, that Quran and teachings of Prophet Muhammad are obsolete. Tell them to praise you we give our religion a Rosham islam a diddat pasand islam...
"amir mughal"
Reply:
amir : There is no Mohammad Bi
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
There is no Mohammad Bin Qasim, but a big army of Meer Jafers and Pervaizs (the Ameer who teared the the name of Muhamamd P.B.U.H. when a letter was sent to them to recognize Allah is one an
Dear Nauman,
There is no Mohammad Bin Qasim, but a big army of Meer Jafers and Pervaizs (the Ameer who teared the the name of Muhamamd P.B.U.H. when a letter was sent to them to recognize Allah is one and Muhamamd (pbuh) is His messenger.
I also request the writers to please read again which we promisted at this website homepage I Promise "we all will make pakistan the best place to practice Islam and to live"
When ever i find time i always read comments and come to the conclusion that we have to redefine our Mission Statement "we all will make Pakistan the best place to live" As y brothers and my leaders are trying to make this place for the best palce to live.
By using ONLY using the name "best practice to practicce islam" Why we are Betray ourself,,,is it not same like our leaders,,, why we are not fair atleat with ourself, why we are confuse about our religion,, why we are not straight.
why we do not have courage to say that by name we are muslims, by mouth we hate non muslims but by deeds we are proud to practice them.Shayed isi leay Allah nay Quran Makar krnay walo k leay kaha hai k ....
Regards, Amir
Reply:
Farhan: Come one. These “stude
Replied by(
webmaster)
Replied on (5/Apr/2007)
Sorry to say, but I can’t agree with these thoughts.
Dear All!
Come one. These “students” have illegally held the
building and you are saying that the act of saving
them is same as “Muhammad Bin Qasim” did.
Sorry to say, but I can’t agree with these thoughts.
For me, these behavior will lead us to destruction.
Regards,
farhan