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"Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong; they are the ones to attain felicity".
(surah Al-Imran,ayat-104)
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User Name: Iqbal_Hadi_Zaidi
Full Name: Iqbal Hadi Zaidi
User since: 26/Aug/2008
No Of voices: 594
 
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Whom to ask, self or US or both?

Since Osman bin Laden (OBL) is believed to be killed in Abbottabad, Pakistan on early hours of 2nd May, and the subject is being discussed all over the places around the world from different angles and perspectives wherein former as well as active personnel from intelligence agencies, journalists, political thinkers and commentators, to mention a few, have viewed it differently. On the face of it the operation in question looks to be a clear cut victory for the devil-daring SEALS of US navy for which they are being commended, honored and decorated by each and everyone headed by USA President Obama but to me as a Pakistani, it raises many trifling questions too which are not only very hard to ask but also to answer but what can I do otherwise? 131

One can write pages and pages, if not a voluminous book, on the subject who is very much foggy and shrouded in mysteries and punctuated with serious doubts in any case but I will try to focus on bull’s eye to be honest so that it is easily understood as to what I am up to. The first and the foremost question are as to where did he go from Tora Bora which was fiercely attacked both from ground and air in December 1991? Who does not know that USA had waged war in Afghanistan to capture none but Osama whose coronaries are believed to have killed hundreds of people in US on 9/11? How did many believe that he had been killed during Tora Bora war? Where did he live for so many long years since he left the rugged mountains of Tora Bora, Afghanistan when USA had bombed the area? How could he escape from the battle ground when enemy forces were all around looking for none but him? Could he easily and purely at his own without any help from others, directly or indirectly, run away from the sturdy mountainous and zigzag area which is an alien territory for him in any case? Who sheltered him, where and how? Why couldn’t he be found out when in October 2004 he released a video affirming his intention not to spare infidels in general and US in particular? 239

Pakistan is experiencing some friction, if not problems, with USA for quite some time on Taliban and Osama issue but one way or the other we did succeed to some length in completely denying that he is not with us or it is not in our knowledge and to corroborate our statement, we have been saying that had we known, we would have caught him up ourselves and most of the parties, if not all, had to believe us if we were not telling the white lie. Now when OBL is found right on our soil in Abbottabad which is next door neighbor of Pakistan Academy, Kakul, it is really very hard to believe that none knew about his presence.  Pakistanis including myself feel too proud of our armed forces in general and army in particular, intelligence agencies and interrogative agencies that are known for their professionalism. Our army had very professionally and tactfully defeated much greater army of India in 1965 which, as such, had boosted up our morale still the higher. But what happened now are quite embarrassing for the nation as a whole and each Pakistani whether living in Pakistan or overseas like me is very much disturbed and perturbed as to how could it happen? Who could be the person or group of persons or even an agency or bunch of agencies which knew about him but kept mum? Who stitched up their lips to open and tell us about OBL? 245

In all fairness, I very much oppose to the very idea that now the whole blame be put on President Asif Ali Zardari or Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gillani or Army Chief Gen Perviaz Ashfaq Kiyani or for that matter, Director General ISI Lt Gen Amjad Shuja Agha rather it should be shared equally both individually and collectively by all those who had manned such positions right from 1991 if not before. It is next to impossible that none knew from such a along chain but, if for academic reasons and not otherwise, I believe that not even a single person from the above mentioned lot knew then shouldn’t it be construed that they both individually and collectively failed in simple litmus test? I am mistaken, rather grossly mistaken to construe that my top brass failed in litmus which next to impossible even in the life hereafter and, therefore, they are silent for very obvious reasons to be understood by none but elite only and cannot and should not be discussed with commoners in any case under any circumstances.

No denying the fact that Pakistan itself has suffered a lot at the hands of OBL and Taleban both in terms of human life and material. I very much seriously doubt that anyone in Pakistan including intelligence agencies, NGOs, police, media, hospitals, statistical department or even mortuaries know how many have been killed directly or indirectly by OBL or Taleban and this as such very emphatically and categorically proves that Pakistan has been hit hard by such abominable humans who did not distinguish between man, woman or child when they pounced in public. The material damage simply cannot be counted whatsoever. US over many long years have many a time very openly and without any reservation or reluctance has recognized and announced publicly that Pakistan is its very trusted ally so far as fighting against the menace of terrorism is concerned which is certainly a fact and not fiction.

Will someone, in the name of Allah, speak out aloud as to what are the impenetrable and unyielding facts of the dilemma even if bitter and difficult for us to digest but still we will be relieved to know the ground realities? Ever since 2nd instant, when this has happened, we have read and seen that our top echelon is meeting behind closed doors on the subject but it is not helping the cause. The nation wants nothing more and nothing less than a very categorical answer if we knew OBL presence or not? (to be continued)

                         **************************************

With my honest and solemn prayers

Sincere Iqbal Hadi Zaidi / Kuwait

 Reply:   Who is to blame?
Replied by(turkman) Replied on (12/May/2011)

Hiyours,
We had not hired any ChowkiDaar. We had inherited him from British. He had beat the shit out of us, when we had revolted against the British in 1857. .
.
He had fought in WW I and II for the British as a loyal Soldier, attacked our Caliph's Empire and even had shot some Bullets on Kaabaa also while trying to kill some of our Caliph's Soldiers.
Now since British are gone, our ChowkiDaar is the rightful replacement of our Ruler and he deserves it for his loyalty to our former Master. He is Pakistan, Religion and God. Saying anything against our this God is Blasphemy. Even disagreeing is Blasphemy. We must keep believing in everything our God tells us and never believe in facts or truth.
 
 Reply:   Turkman's view
Replied by(hiyours) Replied on (12/May/2011)

In support of Turkman's statement, that we lost 1965 war, I will refer to book by Mr. Shoukat Hayat Khan Tiwana, who was called Shoukat e Punjab,by Mr. Jinnah. The name of book is "The Nation that lost its soul". In this book he admitted loss of 1965 war and called stories of triumph as fabricated ones
 
 Reply:   Who is to blame?
Replied by(hiyours) Replied on (12/May/2011)

It is not the failure of government. It is the failure of army. when we keep choukidar for our home we sleep with satisfaction and tension free. We including the government rely on the claims and self praise and evaluation of Pakistan army of which we have no independent source to judge. We judge the capabilities of army throug these event. We judged it in 1971 and we have judged it now. When our borders were transgressed and our forces.......... just useless. Some columnist at BBC Urdu site rightly said that USA should not suspect that how could we be unaware of Osama. We could not notice the three helicopters which intruded 150 kilometers into our boarders, attacked a city having PMA in it and went back, but great Pakistan army remained unaware. Then it should not be difficult to believe that we would be unaware of Osama's presence
 
 Reply:   Whom to ask?
Replied by(turkman) Replied on (8/May/2011)

ZAIDI wrote: "The first and the foremost question are as to where did he go from Tora Bora which was fiercely attacked both from ground and air in December 1991?"
 -
TURKMAN: Because no such thing happened in Tora Bora in 1991.
 -
ZAIDI wrote: "Where did he live for so many long years since he left the rugged mountains of Tora Bora, Afghanistan ..."
.
TURKMAN: According to the statement given now to ISI by one of his Wives, "Haripur and then by the end of 2005 in Abbotabad"
 
ZAIDI wrote: "Our army had very professionally and tactfully defeated much greater army of India in 1965 which, as such, had boosted up our morale still the higher"
 .
TURKMAN: Not really. If USA had not caused Cease Fire, Indian Army would have taken Islamabad in next 2 days. Our Moral was boosted by Lies of Victory over India and by hiding the fact that Gen. Ayub had started begging USA to stop the war the day India had declared that war. If USA had taken any longer with her hard bargaining Enemy USSR for us, there would have been no Pakistan left. ----
 
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